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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 20:09:39 GMT -5
If there was another vote, I would vote along the same lines as I did before which would be for simming more than one day at a time. I don't equate simming with being or needing to be realistic. Hence I do not mind "fantasy" players. I do want the results of the simming to be approxiamations of what could happen. Whatever game engine is used, the results will not be totally realistic anyway. I wish we had a league that require we send in a file that would reflect our managerial choices. The league leadership wants me to post more often. This is not an unreasonable request. I work 50-60 hours a week. I supervise over 100 people. I have a family that I want to spend time with. I have a father that is in a dementia ward and I manage his health and finances. I have friendships and a house to maintain. Life is busy. Being in a sim league should be a fun hobby. Being in a league where too many posts are personal attacks is not my idea of fun. I want this league to be a fun diversion. For me a league where I could manipulate my own managerial (game day) choices and have a sim schedule that would build a league narrative or history would be more fun. With our present sim schedule, this will never happen. Rich WarriorsGM Agree 100%. I have contributed to the bickering but that has more to do with the unfairness I see and you see in certain things that take place. And to New York: A sim league is not real life, it is a simulation based on current ratings and future projected ratings that are embedded in the game itself. In a baseball mogul league, they may change the ratings(increase or decrease) of players BEFORE THE LEAGUE ACTUALLY BEGINS, but besides for that, any leagues that I've been in, the people in charge let the game take its course and don't mess with the ratings. They let the game itself dictate who increases and who doesn't increase in ratings. Sometimes there are special things that are done in the offseason to boost a certain player's rating in some category as a bonus rule(had this in both baseball mogul and nba sim leagues). But never have I seen players' ratings being decreased based on how they perform in real life. This is a simulation league. Yes, you want to base it on how they are in real life, it starts out that way, but it doesn't continue that way. The sim league becomes a league of its own, separate from the real life league. Even 1/2 way through the NBA season still isn't a good measuring stick. You literally would have to end the season in March to get a indication of it. But like I said before, they are two completely separate things. Did you not read where I said that Gordon Heyward wasn't projected to be a lottery pick until his performance in the NCAA tournament? So are you going to wait until April to make it as "realistic" as possible, or are you just going to accept the reality of the situation we are in and move forward with the league. Most of this is another example of us just having different experiences. The Sim Leagues I fell in love with (and attempted to start here with Brad) DID adjust the ratings each offseason based on real life. Many were successful, and in those leagues that were not successful, it was not because of the ratings. The main problem that killed every league I was in was inconsistent simming/simmers who simply stopped or had to stop simming for one reason or another. I respect that you are used to something different, although I hope you respect that you brought your own assumptions into this league about how it was going to run, and when you found out it was going to be something different (basing ratings on Real-Life) you again assumed we changed the rules. That was not the case. Now, I will admit we should have had even more rules posted and made our intentions more clear. I actually asked for more time before we started simming originally with Brad, but he really wanted to get started, and I do understand why he wanted to do that. I just felt we weren't ready. We tried to get an entire league started up in a few days basically, and it is not surprising that these things have cropped up and that we did not remember everything that needed remembering at the start of the league. I'll apologize for this as well. I dunno what else to say about that other than we can try and work through this.
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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 20:15:56 GMT -5
I had no assumptions on how the league would be run but I come into a league expecting fairness and a democratic approach to most issues and conflicts that arise in the league. That's been my main problem. It was the Kidd trade first, then the sim schedule(which was put up for a vote and then changed later, so how democratic is that?), and now this whole player rating process.
For the last time, every league is different. What works in 1 league may not work in another, mainly b/c of the different GM's between the two leagues. You have to adapt to the situation at hand. You don't want to do this. So that's essentially been my conflict with you this whole time.
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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 20:17:45 GMT -5
I am in agreement with the 76ers when it comes to a league sim schedule and the player ratings adjustment process. While I think the sim schedule is an important issue for a sim league, if GM's are happy with the current schedule, so be it. A league is a voluntary organization and GM's can vote with their feet. I do not see the sim schedule issue as a deal breaker. When it comes to player rating changes; however, I believe the game engine must calculate these adjustments. If the changes are left to people in the league, too much subjectivity will exist. The power goes to the person who is able to be the most persausive. Collusion will raise its ugly head, favoritism charges will be made. While a game engine is not a perfect vehicle, it is objective and EVERYONE is treated the same. Cries that the game engine sucks or is unfair are understandable, but nobody can attack the league's integrity because of the game engine. We have a league where there is already much disagreement. Do we need more? I have been in sim leagues for the past 7-8 years. I have been in a couple of leagues that failed because the league's leadership and integrity were questioned. In my experience, when the integrity of the league is called into question, that league has lost the glue that holds the league together. Sim leagues are built upon a compact of trust. The foundation of this trust is that all GM's will be treated equally; all game players will face the same criteria. The mathematical formulas a game engine is built upon guarantees impartiality. Once trust is broken, a league will fail. I appreciate what Portland and many others have done to make this league viable and fun. I've enjoyed most of the trade talks that I have had via pm or aim. I will not enjoy it if I believe the league's integrity comes into question. It is important to me that a decision about how player rating changes be made and clarified. In all the leagues I have participated with in the past, this decision was part of the league's constitution. Everybody knew up front what to expect because it was clearly stated. If theleague's constitution was changed or amended it was changed or amended by a vote. A decision should be made soon, so everybody will know what to expect. Please decide now out of respect and fairness to everybody involved. Rich As I just stated in another previous post here just recently, we should have made it clear that we intended to make rating changes based on Real Life. That was the intention the whole time, and I honestly had never been in a league that did it any other way. I'll profess ignorance on that, I've never seen it done like that, and I don't think I would have stayed in any other league that handled ratings like that either. It's not the style of sim-league I fell in love with and decided I would like to dedicate hours of time to every day. Nothing against you guys who like the leagues that way, just not something I'd be interested in.
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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 20:25:29 GMT -5
the sim schedule(which was put up for a vote and then changed later, so how democratic is that?) Agree there, I fought Brad on it right away. The vote was like 16 in favor of one sim a day out of 24 votes, the other 8 spread around 3 other options, and he just disregarded it. But, that's int he past. If you are referring to Portland changing the sim schedule, I dunno what to tell you there. He doesn't want to sim 3 days per RL day, and I can't blame him much. If he changes his mind on that, that's fine and dandy as well. His call, he's a big boy :-) For the last time, every league is different. What works in 1 league may not work in another, mainly b/c of the different GM's between the two leagues. You have to adapt to the situation at hand. You don't want to do this. So that's essentially been my conflict with you this whole time. You are right, all leagues are different. Again I just never experience or heard of the type you are referring to. I'm here right now trying to adapt to the situation at hand, and you are still bashing me for it, and pretending I am not doing what I am doing lol. Can't win with you.
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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 20:28:00 GMT -5
You will win with me and everyone else here if you re-think your hard stance and compromise or find a way to incorporate everyone's thoughts and do "what is best for the league."
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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 20:33:34 GMT -5
If you are asking for a vote then I'm up for it, but only if Portland wants to do it. This league lives and dies on what he does or doesn't do with the game, at least as of now. Give me some more concrete ideas on what you want to be included in the vote, what kinds of things exactly. You seem to be spearheading the "other side" of all this, so let me know what you want to be considered specifically.
Be a help here.
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Post by Marco's Blazers on Sept 25, 2010 23:25:19 GMT -5
The staff group (Knicks and i) is working on a player progression to make clear how rating changes work for those who are confused. All i can say, is that we will make it look as fair as possible for most GM.
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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 26, 2010 19:50:08 GMT -5
I talked with Portland and he is also taking a hard stance, which I don't agree with. So as of now, not much that I can do.
All I can say is I expressed to him that it was important to consider everyone's opinion but he wouldn't have any of it, basically saying he'll do it how he wants to do it.
Portland's done a lot of good for the league but not being responsive to everyone is not a smart move. But I'll sit back and see what happens.
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