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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 23, 2010 19:55:27 GMT -5
I don't agree with slowing down b/c it makes the league grow more stale, more boring. We don't have enough off topic threads and other threads to keep conversations going for more than 1 day.
I know you're doing a lot and you are to be commended on the job you've done but don't forget the bigger picture here, which is to keep the league going, not to stall things.
The league started when it started, there's no sense in dragging it out just for the sake of realistic rookies.
Nobody realizes that Gordan Heyward was never a lottery pick until after the NCAA tournament was finished, that was in April. So are we going to keep this season dragging on until next April? It's nonsense.
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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 23, 2010 20:12:08 GMT -5
I'm going to keep this as civil as possible.
This is not my idea. Do I agree with it? Yes that's documented. And you do remember the poll we had, correct? I believe 16 votes said 1 sim per day. 4 votes said 3 sims per day, 2 votes said 2 sims per day, and 2 votes said 4 sims per day. So, yes I agree with the 1 sim per day (average), but this is not "my idea". Over half the league has the same idea, stop blaming it on me.
I also loved how you waited to post in this thread until I posted :-) I even told Portland that I did not want to post in here because you would attack me.
Looks like I was completely right. You are very predictable and kind of pathetic.
BTW, if you don't think there are enough off-topic threads, why don't you start some? That's just not your style though. You will whine about something not being done, but you won't actually go and do it. That's the pathetic part btw, just to make that clear.
That's all I have to say on this, not going to go back and forth. We have different opinions on this thing, always have, so oh well. No need for you to get all personal about this every time I get involved. It's ridiculous.
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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 23, 2010 20:18:50 GMT -5
I work 10 hrs. a day, sorry, I don't have time to start threads or write news articles, those times are far behind me. I have to work 10 hrs. a day, usually all morning and afternoon, I come back late afternoon or early evening, so I should be the one who saves the league?
Keepin it civil? Looks like you just took a shot at me. I posted after Minny and Fic posted. I could 2 rat's asses if you made any post. You are not the center of the universe.
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Post by Chicago Bulls on Sept 23, 2010 23:06:29 GMT -5
I haven't played a game since I traded Joakim Noah which was Monday Night I believe. Way to long IMO to sim. We can't have this dragging out because we want realistic players. So you're going to wait til 2014 to see who the 2014 lottery players are? Not going to work. I've only been in 1 league where it has lasted over 1 year real time. It lasted 2 years but that was after 3-4 different boards and a couple of different versions came out so everything was tested. This sim league won't last 4 years, let alone 1 year. I don't care how dedicated Portland is (like 6ers said great job) but we don't have the GMs to make it a successful league. In the 2 year league I was in we had an EXCELLENT core of 20 or so members who were dedicated, the other 10 or so teams were a revolving door but kinda stuck on once they realized we had such a great thing going.
Here its not that. To many in-season rule changes and for the most part kinda unorganized. Another thing that made that league last so long was you can play the game yourself. It was baseball mogul. We could sim 3-4 years in the future and see who we can get for a cheap price now but we see whose going to turn into a stud. It made everything so competitive the only one that has that upper hand is Blazers. For all we know, Al Horford could be a 95 in 2 years, but Blazers might already know that (not accusing you) so right there he has that advantage a lot of us wouldn't know.
Sorry for rambling, I'm sure half of this post don't make no sense.
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Post by jshutta81 - former heat on Sept 24, 2010 6:25:29 GMT -5
IF we are going to take time and sim one day every day its going to take real long and people are not going to be showing up anymore
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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 24, 2010 7:28:47 GMT -5
Maybe this needs a vote, maybe the democratic way of doing things is the best rather than just making a decision w/o people's input. Maybe this thread is a way for the two of you to maybe change your mind.
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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 24, 2010 7:52:57 GMT -5
Chicago, we base our ratings off of real-life, so everyone has the same advantages. Guys will not go up just b/c the game says so. So, Portland has no advantage in that way.
Also, he has posted in-depth ratings which helps to even the playing field a lot.
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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 24, 2010 10:14:56 GMT -5
Chicago, we base our ratings off of real-life, so everyone has the same advantages. Guys will not go up just b/c the game says so. So, Portland has no advantage in that way. Also, he has posted in-depth ratings which helps to even the playing field a lot. That's the biggest pile of crap ever. Basing ratings off of the real life? This season will end before the NBA season will end, so how can you tell who will be good in December vs. who will be good in March??? Again, very unrealistic way of running a sim league. So you're telling me that if a guy who is rated an 80 right now is not considered to have a good "real life" NBA season, he will be bumped down to a 73? How will you determine how far the guy will go down in ratings? It sure as hell won't be an objective view b/c how can you be objective about such things??? You are so clueless about this whole thing that you don't understand how unfair and how subjective this whole process could become. You change ratings based on who is doing well in this sim league, this sim league has nothing to do with real life, so you really need to get your head examined and re-wired b/c you are mixing the two up. And I'm not being mean either, I'm being straightforward as to what I think about this SUBJECTIVE process that you are thinking about implementing. There is nothing objective about lowering a player's rating b/c of how "you think" he will perform next season. You don't know how anyone will perform, so who are you to say how far a player's rating should increase or decrease? Even 2 months into the season, you still don't know how everyone will perform for sure, you might have a little better idea, but you still don't have a complete and full picture. As much as you want it to be realistic and comparable to the real NBA, it simply cannot be done and you need to understand it and accept it.
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Post by sayheykid4ever - Former GSW on Sept 24, 2010 21:13:29 GMT -5
If there was another vote, I would vote along the same lines as I did before which would be for simming more than one day at a time.
I don't equate simming with being or needing to be realistic. Hence I do not mind "fantasy" players. I do want the results of the simming to be approxiamations of what could happen. Whatever game engine is used, the results will not be totally realistic anyway. I wish we had a league that require we send in a file that would reflect our managerial choices.
The league leadership wants me to post more often. This is not an unreasonable request. I work 50-60 hours a week. I supervise over 100 people. I have a family that I want to spend time with. I have a father that is in a dementia ward and I manage his health and finances. I have friendships and a house to maintain. Life is busy. Being in a sim league should be a fun hobby. Being in a league where too many posts are personal attacks is not my idea of fun.
I want this league to be a fun diversion. For me a league where I could manipulate my own managerial (game day) choices and have a sim schedule that would build a league narrative or history would be more fun. With our present sim schedule, this will never happen.
Rich WarriorsGM
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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 24, 2010 21:51:56 GMT -5
Chicago, we base our ratings off of real-life, so everyone has the same advantages. Guys will not go up just b/c the game says so. So, Portland has no advantage in that way. Also, he has posted in-depth ratings which helps to even the playing field a lot. That's the biggest pile of crap ever. Basing ratings off of the real life? This season will end before the NBA season will end, so how can you tell who will be good in December vs. who will be good in March??? Again, very unrealistic way of running a sim league. So you're telling me that if a guy who is rated an 80 right now is not considered to have a good "real life" NBA season, he will be bumped down to a 73? How will you determine how far the guy will go down in ratings? It sure as hell won't be an objective view b/c how can you be objective about such things??? You are so clueless about this whole thing that you don't understand how unfair and how subjective this whole process could become. You change ratings based on who is doing well in this sim league, this sim league has nothing to do with real life, so you really need to get your head examined and re-wired b/c you are mixing the two up. And I'm not being mean either, I'm being straightforward as to what I think about this SUBJECTIVE process that you are thinking about implementing. There is nothing objective about lowering a player's rating b/c of how "you think" he will perform next season. You don't know how anyone will perform, so who are you to say how far a player's rating should increase or decrease? Even 2 months into the season, you still don't know how everyone will perform for sure, you might have a little better idea, but you still don't have a complete and full picture. As much as you want it to be realistic and comparable to the real NBA, it simply cannot be done and you need to understand it and accept it. No you are assuming quite a bit there. We would not be messing with anyone's ratings IF we ended this sim season before much has happened IRL. However, if we end the sim season about halfway through the RL season, we will adjust based on what has happened to that point. Try to keep things up to date with real life. Sim leagues are a simulation of real life, so every league I've ever been in has tried hard to keep things as close to real-life as possible. That's just what I'm used to I guess for the past 4 years in 10+ leagues.
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Post by New York Knicks on Sept 24, 2010 21:59:46 GMT -5
As for a vote, it's up to Portland. He is the one simming, he's going to go as fast as he is comfortable going. He's done a shit-ton for the league. Enjoy it.
Anything else that needs said, Portland can respond if he thinks it is warranted. I think he has already said all he needs to say though, go read his posts again.
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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 7:35:08 GMT -5
If there was another vote, I would vote along the same lines as I did before which would be for simming more than one day at a time. I don't equate simming with being or needing to be realistic. Hence I do not mind "fantasy" players. I do want the results of the simming to be approxiamations of what could happen. Whatever game engine is used, the results will not be totally realistic anyway. I wish we had a league that require we send in a file that would reflect our managerial choices. The league leadership wants me to post more often. This is not an unreasonable request. I work 50-60 hours a week. I supervise over 100 people. I have a family that I want to spend time with. I have a father that is in a dementia ward and I manage his health and finances. I have friendships and a house to maintain. Life is busy. Being in a sim league should be a fun hobby. Being in a league where too many posts are personal attacks is not my idea of fun. I want this league to be a fun diversion. For me a league where I could manipulate my own managerial (game day) choices and have a sim schedule that would build a league narrative or history would be more fun. With our present sim schedule, this will never happen. Rich WarriorsGM Agree 100%. I have contributed to the bickering but that has more to do with the unfairness I see and you see in certain things that take place. And to New York: A sim league is not real life, it is a simulation based on current ratings and future projected ratings that are embedded in the game itself. In a baseball mogul league, they may change the ratings(increase or decrease) of players BEFORE THE LEAGUE ACTUALLY BEGINS, but besides for that, any leagues that I've been in, the people in charge let the game take its course and don't mess with the ratings. They let the game itself dictate who increases and who doesn't increase in ratings. Sometimes there are special things that are done in the offseason to boost a certain player's rating in some category as a bonus rule(had this in both baseball mogul and nba sim leagues). But never have I seen players' ratings being decreased based on how they perform in real life. This is a simulation league. Yes, you want to base it on how they are in real life, it starts out that way, but it doesn't continue that way. The sim league becomes a league of its own, separate from the real life league. Even 1/2 way through the NBA season still isn't a good measuring stick. You literally would have to end the season in March to get a indication of it. But like I said before, they are two completely separate things. Did you not read where I said that Gordon Heyward wasn't projected to be a lottery pick until his performance in the NCAA tournament? So are you going to wait until April to make it as "realistic" as possible, or are you just going to accept the reality of the situation we are in and move forward with the league.
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Post by Minnesota Timberwolves on Sept 25, 2010 9:23:09 GMT -5
No way in hell Gordan Heyward should have been a lottery pick. Same as Ty Thomas when LSU made their run to the National Championship game. Hate it when a team makes a run in the NCAA tournament and 1 player jumps 20 spots just because his TEAM excels. Yes Heyward was by far the best player on that team, but he is not a top 20 player in that draft. UGG
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Post by sayheykid4ever - Former GSW on Sept 25, 2010 11:26:39 GMT -5
I am in agreement with the 76ers when it comes to a league sim schedule and the player ratings adjustment process. While I think the sim schedule is an important issue for a sim league, if GM's are happy with the current schedule, so be it. A league is a voluntary organization and GM's can vote with their feet. I do not see the sim schedule issue as a deal breaker.
When it comes to player rating changes; however, I believe the game engine must calculate these adjustments. If the changes are left to people in the league, too much subjectivity will exist. The power goes to the person who is able to be the most persausive. Collusion will raise its ugly head, favoritism charges will be made. While a game engine is not a perfect vehicle, it is objective and EVERYONE is treated the same. Cries that the game engine sucks or is unfair are understandable, but nobody can attack the league's integrity because of the game engine. We have a league where there is already much disagreement. Do we need more?
I have been in sim leagues for the past 7-8 years. I have been in a couple of leagues that failed because the league's leadership and integrity were questioned. In my experience, when the integrity of the league is called into question, that league has lost the glue that holds the league together. Sim leagues are built upon a compact of trust. The foundation of this trust is that all GM's will be treated equally; all game players will face the same criteria. The mathematical formulas a game engine is built upon guarantees impartiality. Once trust is broken, a league will fail.
I appreciate what Portland and many others have done to make this league viable and fun. I've enjoyed most of the trade talks that I have had via pm or aim. I will not enjoy it if I believe the league's integrity comes into question. It is important to me that a decision about how player rating changes be made and clarified. In all the leagues I have participated with in the past, this decision was part of the league's constitution. Everybody knew up front what to expect because it was clearly stated. If theleague's constitution was changed or amended it was changed or amended by a vote. A decision should be made soon, so everybody will know what to expect. Please decide now out of respect and fairness to everybody involved.
Rich
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Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 11:26:48 GMT -5
No way in hell Gordan Heyward should have been a lottery pick. Same as Ty Thomas when LSU made their run to the National Championship game. Hate it when a team makes a run in the NCAA tournament and 1 player jumps 20 spots just because his TEAM excels. Yes Heyward was by far the best player on that team, but he is not a top 20 player in that draft. UGG Who knows, Heyward could become a very good complimentary player. None of us expects him to be a star or anything but he's a tall player who could probably play SF or SG, reminds me of Kirilenko from a size and weight standpoint and he's a very smart player. Point is that nothing is set in stone, not in December, not in February, and sometimes not until 2 weeks until the NBA draft.
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