|
Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 12:26:58 GMT -5
I am in agreement with the 76ers when it comes to a league sim schedule and the player ratings adjustment process. While I think the sim schedule is an important issue for a sim league, if GM's are happy with the current schedule, so be it. A league is a voluntary organization and GM's can vote with their feet. I do not see the sim schedule issue as a deal breaker. When it comes to player rating changes; however, I believe the game engine must calculate these adjustments. If the changes are left to people in the league, too much subjectivity will exist. The power goes to the person who is able to be the most persausive. Collusion will raise its ugly head, favoritism charges will be made. While a game engine is not a perfect vehicle, it is objective and EVERYONE is treated the same. Cries that the game engine sucks or is unfair are understandable, but nobody can attack the league's integrity because of the game engine. We have a league where there is already much disagreement. Do we need more? I have been in sim leagues for the past 7-8 years. I have been in a couple of leagues that failed because the league's leadership and integrity were questioned. In my experience, when the integrity of the league is called into question, that league has lost the glue that holds the league together. Sim leagues are built upon a compact of trust. The foundation of this trust is that all GM's will be treated equally; all game players will face the same criteria. The mathematical formulas a game engine is built upon guarantees impartiality. Once trust is broken, a league will fail. I appreciate what Portland and many others have done to make this league viable and fun. I've enjoyed most of the trade talks that I have had via pm or aim. I will not enjoy it if I believe the league's integrity comes into question. It is important to me that a decision about how player rating changes be made and clarified. In all the leagues I have participated with in the past, this decision was part of the league's constitution. Everybody knew up front what to expect because it was clearly stated. If theleague's constitution was changed or amended it was changed or amended by a vote. A decision should be made soon, so everybody will know what to expect. Please decide now out of respect and fairness to everybody involved. Rich I am in complete agreement, you see exactly what I see with how subjective this whole rating changing process could become. This is what I've been trying to get into the mind of these 2 guys. Let's hope they understand how subjective this could become and decide to change their minds.
|
|
|
Post by OKC Thunder on Sept 25, 2010 12:42:09 GMT -5
honestly i agree with sixers and golden state about this. the ratings in this game should only initially be completely based off real life, then after the ratings changes in the league should be completely based off game simulator not or following real life. because although simulators are supposed to be close to real we cant change things in our league that contradict what has been happening in real nba just because whats happening in real life has been different.
|
|
|
Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 18:48:02 GMT -5
I am in no way attempting to influence anyone here. If the league lets the game handle ratings changes I am out. That is not fun to me, not what I thought I was getting into when I helped Brad create the league and helped Portland out with everything, and is just not what I am looking for in a similar league. Completely respect the decision if you guys make it but as gsw said, (paraphrasing here) I have my feet and can use them. I'll leave it up to Portland to have a vote if he wants. He is the Guy affected by all this stuff the most really.
|
|
|
Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 19:26:07 GMT -5
Wow, unbelievable, making an ultimatum? If you don't get your way, you are out? Very adult-like of you.
The way you want it is not necessarily the way the whole league wants it. Reminds me of a superstar player who thought he was gonna get all the touches, all the shots, all the glory, and when he has to be just another player, just another person to help the team succeed, he goes into a big hissy fit and tantrum over it.
Portland explained his plan and I find it a bit confusing but there is a certain logic behind his plan, a certain level of fairness that he explained. I don't know if it can work and I think it may confuse a lot of us but I think your ultimatums and your inability to change your opinion on anything shows your true personality.
|
|
|
Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 19:32:09 GMT -5
Wow, you take things out of context again and again. I said right away I don't want to influence anyone, just voicing my opinion just like you and GSW have done.
If you consider that a big hissyfit and tantrum, you have not experienced much in your life, as I was extremely calm and relaxed while typing that.
As I said, it's just not the league I envisioned when I put in hours and hours, really days of time creating the thing with Brad, and now trying to maintain it with Portland.
Also, as I said (and you ignore as well), I respect your guys' opinions. If that is the way you want to go, I respect it, but I will not put in any of my time to help the league survive if it is not something I even want to be a part of.
That is all there is, no ultimatum, you guys can survive without me just fine I am sure.
|
|
|
Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 19:37:49 GMT -5
Wow, you take things out of context again and again. I said right away I don't want to influence anyone, just voicing my opinion just like you and GSW have done. If you consider that a big hissyfit and tantrum, you have not experienced much in your life, as I was extremely calm and relaxed while typing that. As I said, it's just not the league I envisioned when I put in hours and hours, really days of time creating the thing with Brad, and now trying to maintain it with Portland. Also, as I said (and you ignore as well), I respect your guys' opinions. If that is the way you want to go, I respect it, but I will not put in any of my time to help the league survive if it is not something I even want to be a part of. That is all there is, no ultimatum, you guys can survive without me just fine I am sure. So, if this plan goes accordingly to the way you want, and there's about 5 of us that have voiced our displeasure, so in other words, you're saying that we should leave b/c we aren't getting our way? The problem has always been that you keep changing the rules and keep coming up with new ideas to try to make this league better but it's actually making it more confusing, more annoying, and less fun b/c of the uncertainity. You guys put doubt and uncertainity and don't explain the process, so what do you expect us to do? Agree with you guys and shutup? Or question you guys and try to understand what is going on? You tell me, b/c you haven't explained how this process would take place. You just said it and that's it, we have to go along with it or else you are out? As I said, that's pretty childish of you to make that ultimatum. And it is an ultimatum, particularly to the Portland GM.
|
|
|
Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 19:41:19 GMT -5
What rules have changed? Please tell me, or ask any questions specifically that you do not understand, and we will do all we can to explain any confusion to you.
However, if your responses in this thread are your way of "asking questions" you really need to work on your questioning skills. You frequently come off as aggressive and hostile as opposed to uncertain/confused. Makes talking with you very difficult.
Anyway, ask your questions, what don't you get, what have we changed mid-stream?
|
|
|
Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 19:44:24 GMT -5
BTW, the sim schedules is the main change I can think of, and that was simply a change in the simmer. New Simmer came in to help Brad, and at least he can sim. If he hadn't come there would be zero simming and the league would be long dead. From what I understand it takes a good deal of time to sim and do everything else Portland puts into this thing. He's the ultimate boss IMO as to how often the simming will occur, just like Brad was the ultimate boss (completely disregarded an overwhelming vote against what he wanted to do with simming) when he was in charge of simming.
Now, what else has changed/what are you uncertain of/confused about? Happy to try and clear up confusion.
|
|
|
Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 19:45:07 GMT -5
One GM I'm talking with already wants to quit b/c of your lack of reasoning. This guy could be a real active GM or active enough but he, like others, feel that their opinions means jack shit b/c you don't want to listen and understand what we are saying. Your opinion is the one that matters, you are the one who has to be correct and right.
This is what happens when you don't look at things from everyone's perspective. You lose good GM's. I hope this GM doesn't leave but he's already told me he probably will.
|
|
|
Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 19:47:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear that. Will he voice what he is worried about in public or remain anonymous? It would be great if he can do this while remaining rational and clear-headed, whoever he is. When people come off argumentative and hostile it just doesn't work as well.
|
|
|
Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 19:49:33 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear that. Will he voice what he is worried about in public or remain anonymous? It would be great if he can do this while remaining rational and clear-headed, whoever he is. When people come off argumentative and hostile it just doesn't work as well. He has already voiced what he thinks about it. Like I said, he doesn't feel that his opinion and his feelings are taken into account. I don't blame him, I feel the same way. I'm not saying who it is out of respect for his privacy. If he wants to, he will reveal himself. If you're not careful, you will alienate people b/c you don't want to compromise.
|
|
|
Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 19:50:57 GMT -5
I'm here right now waiting for people to talk and we can talk it out. I'll go back and read the whole damn thread again and try to figure out who wants to talk about what.
|
|
|
Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 20:01:20 GMT -5
If there was another vote, I would vote along the same lines as I did before which would be for simming more than one day at a time. I don't equate simming with being or needing to be realistic. Hence I do not mind "fantasy" players. I do want the results of the simming to be approxiamations of what could happen. Whatever game engine is used, the results will not be totally realistic anyway. I wish we had a league that require we send in a file that would reflect our managerial choices. The league leadership wants me to post more often. This is not an unreasonable request. I work 50-60 hours a week. I supervise over 100 people. I have a family that I want to spend time with. I have a father that is in a dementia ward and I manage his health and finances. I have friendships and a house to maintain. Life is busy. Being in a sim league should be a fun hobby. Being in a league where too many posts are personal attacks is not my idea of fun. I want this league to be a fun diversion. For me a league where I could manipulate my own managerial (game day) choices and have a sim schedule that would build a league narrative or history would be more fun. With our present sim schedule, this will never happen. Rich WarriorsGM As I've stated, I completely respect that you and I are looking for different things out of this league. Although not entirely different. I also agree I'd love for this to be fun, and to get rid of all the personal attacks. I have really tried toning it down in that regard, and I apologize for my previous rifts with Philly. We clearly do not see eye to eye on much, but I will say I have not been attacking him much lately, or not been initiating the attacks at the very least. I simply am responding to what I feel are attacks on me. That aside, I greatly respect you have a real life. I always support someone who leaves the league for a time to deal with personal issues, and wish them well. I hope you do not have to do this, as I believe you can be a good asset to the league. The reason we asked you to post more (which it seems you understand) is that a successful league needs to have GMs who are interacting, posting often, and keeping league activity up. When we have GM's simply logging in and contributing nothing to discussions and such, it just does not work. That is mostly what we were asking for, and I appreciate that you have joined in discussions. If you in any way felt ignored, I apologize to you. I got caught up in my disagreements with Philadelphia and was sort of looking for his posts to see if I needed to defend myself again. Again I apologize and hope we can try to work together and figure out whatever we can and just try to make this thing work.
|
|
|
Post by New York Knicks on Sept 25, 2010 20:01:58 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear that. Will he voice what he is worried about in public or remain anonymous? It would be great if he can do this while remaining rational and clear-headed, whoever he is. When people come off argumentative and hostile it just doesn't work as well. He has already voiced what he thinks about it. Like I said, he doesn't feel that his opinion and his feelings are taken into account. I don't blame him, I feel the same way. I'm not saying who it is out of respect for his privacy. If he wants to, he will reveal himself. If you're not careful, you will alienate people b/c you don't want to compromise. I am glad you did not say who it was, I was more asking for "him" to speak up if he needed to as well.
|
|
|
Post by bearsfolife - BANNED on Sept 25, 2010 20:08:09 GMT -5
If there was another vote, I would vote along the same lines as I did before which would be for simming more than one day at a time. I don't equate simming with being or needing to be realistic. Hence I do not mind "fantasy" players. I do want the results of the simming to be approxiamations of what could happen. Whatever game engine is used, the results will not be totally realistic anyway. I wish we had a league that require we send in a file that would reflect our managerial choices. The league leadership wants me to post more often. This is not an unreasonable request. I work 50-60 hours a week. I supervise over 100 people. I have a family that I want to spend time with. I have a father that is in a dementia ward and I manage his health and finances. I have friendships and a house to maintain. Life is busy. Being in a sim league should be a fun hobby. Being in a league where too many posts are personal attacks is not my idea of fun. I want this league to be a fun diversion. For me a league where I could manipulate my own managerial (game day) choices and have a sim schedule that would build a league narrative or history would be more fun. With our present sim schedule, this will never happen. Rich WarriorsGM As I've stated, I completely respect that you and I are looking for different things out of this league. Although not entirely different. I also agree I'd love for this to be fun, and to get rid of all the personal attacks. I have really tried toning it down in that regard, and I apologize for my previous rifts with Philly. We clearly do not see eye to eye on much, but I will say I have not been attacking him much lately, or not been initiating the attacks at the very least. I simply am responding to what I feel are attacks on me. That aside, I greatly respect you have a real life. I always support someone who leaves the league for a time to deal with personal issues, and wish them well. I hope you do not have to do this, as I believe you can be a good asset to the league. The reason we asked you to post more (which it seems you understand) is that a successful league needs to have GMs who are interacting, posting often, and keeping league activity up. When we have GM's simply logging in and contributing nothing to discussions and such, it just does not work. That is mostly what we were asking for, and I appreciate that you have joined in discussions. If you in any way felt ignored, I apologize to you. I got caught up in my disagreements with Philadelphia and was sort of looking for his posts to see if I needed to defend myself again. Again I apologize and hope we can try to work together and figure out whatever we can and just try to make this thing work. It doesn't matter if GSW or Fic or OKC or Me speak up b/c it all falls on deaf ears anyways. You say he needed to speak up more on league issues but why should he when it clearly doesn't make a difference? None of what any of us say makes a difference to you. You have taken a defiant and definitive stance on your ideas and you don't want to listen and compromise with what all of us have asked for. It's not just me anymore, it's many people. If that isn't enough of an alert for you, then I don't know what is.
|
|